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Tuesday, June 6, 2023

Do we really need to sacrifice quality of movement for intensity?

Brent Brookbush

Brent Brookbush


Panel Discussion: Do we really need to sacrifice quality of movement for intensity?

With the increase in popularity of several metabolic programs we need to either decide that intensity is more important than form and exercise selection, or… we need innovative solutions. Examples and sample routines would be awesome!!!

Moderated by Brent Brookbush DPT, PT, MS, PES, CES, CSCS, ACSM H/FS

This Panel Discussion was originally posted on my facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/brent.brookbush - on July 28th, 2012

Perry Nickelston If movements are done with precision and control they can be more intensive. I see people sweat bullets trying to do a simple rolling pattern or crawl. I personally believe any exercise program can become metabolic in nature with right coaching and true intent of movement. Sloppy movements lose metabolic output in my opinion and run the risk of injury. Load and velocity parameters become dangerous when done without control.

July 28 at 12:04pm

Jemimah Simms I want to know why it's a good idea to train a poor movement pattern anyway. I'm usually a proponent of get off your duff and move but with fad work outs, the peddlers have tapped into the: no guts, no glory/no pain no gain. The masses eat that stuff up without knowing anything. It's all about marketing. Ask the guy who wrote the 4 hour body, or jillian michaels

July 28 at 12:06pm

Brent Brookbush Here is the one issue… if people like that type of intensity, and they enjoy the heart-pumping, sweat inducing workout that many of these program promote… How do we create that intensity without sacrificing movement? We can't just dismiss it, we have to integrate and innovate.

July 28 at 12:16pm

Jemimah Simms Counter question. How do you educate the masses about proper technique, put it in neat box and sell it? It's entirely possibly to get people to run around like jack russell with excellent form, I think it's the attempt to sell it to the masses via DVD that presents the problem.

July 28 at 12:22pm

Brian Lewis Brent, as stated earlier by others, I feel proper technique in the movement, usually means intensity. The sake of speed just to move quickly regardless of movement is a standard for disaster for the athlete. I feel this is a difference maker between good and great coaches. I love to tell clients that "smooth is fast, and fast is always smooth" in health,

July 28 at 12:39pm · Like

Audra Jayne LaMontagne Solution: High intensity AND perfect form. AKA why you hire a trainer.

July 28 at 12:56pm

Brent Brookbush Great Questions and Comments:

I have to disagree with you kats a bit on the following points though:

1. Jemimah Simms - DVD's are not the problem, they are an opportunity to impact more people. I am willing to bet that more individuals bought DVD's than stepped into a gym last year. We need better exercise selection and better education… and I think that is possible in any format.

2. Brian Lewis - Although I agree form is first; you cannot argue that a plank with good form is more intense and burns more calories than a circuit training program that includes several compound movements… although I agree with your premise it implies dismissing higher intensity programs for the sake of form… this isn't integration.

3. Audra Jayne LaMontagne - Sorry but this is just a fallacy… I watch trainer after trainer allow horrendous form discrepancies for the sake of doing TRX, Kettlebells, Crossfit, and the like… Some of the problems with form cannot be cued away - postural dysfunction and neuro-muscular coordination dictate readiness for movement just as much as a trainers ability to communicate. Example, starting a novice individual with a burpee is asking for trouble… I don't care how good a trainer you are….

Sorry to challenge everyone, but I want this to be a good conversation… lot's of interaction, a better understanding, and some innovative new solutions. :-)

July 28 at 1:14pm

Brent Brookbush Sorry Jemimah Simms… accidentally hit enter, when I meant to hit shift + enter. Facebook does weird things when you edit a comment.

July 28 at 1:15pm

Jemimah Simms So you think a DVD can give the same psychmotor cues a person can? (and I'm not saying all trainers are good at this) You can give up on an exercise much more easily than having someone breath over you and who can (usually) explain the benefit of what you are doing other than hearing the generic "good job" and generic verbal cues.

July 28 at 1:17pm

Brent Brookbush Hey Jemimah Simms,

That's not the point… regardless of whether you are acting as a PT or a personal trainer you are only affecting a small portion of the population. As professionals we are expensive; reducing access to our services to only those few who are successful enough to afford us. DVD's are cheap… the cost of one session or less… It's the same reason I wrote "Fitness of Fiction"… you can get a small piece of my training for $15 dollars on amazon. Is it the best education you can get… of course not, but it reaches way more people. Same goes for DVD's…

July 28 at 1:21pm

Audra Jayne LaMontagne That's why there's exercise progression. If you're starting with a novice, take them to THEIR limit. If they can't do a burpee, have them do a walk out. You can't use the argument that there are undereducated trainers as an excuse to not promote exercise intensity. A GOOD trainer will take you to your level. You take your client to a maximum intensity that still maintains form. And also we should define intensity: are we talking heart rate? Speed? Power? If we're talking heart rate then that's easy to measure. Speed or power? Lower progression or weight while maximizing timing and form. You're over-complicating it. This is the foundations of a good work out. No one ever said to do squat jumps to the point of falling over to get fit. The point I was making was that you sacrifice neither intensity nor form.

July 28 at 1:23pm via mobile

Jemimah Simms ‎Brent, I totally dig that, but you will never convince me that someone with no concept of their self will be able to self teach without feedback from a human. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think a human over a book can be more effective.

July 28 at 1:24pm

Brent Brookbush Hey Audra Jayne LaMontagne

"Over-complicating"… me… never ;-)~

I agree with all points, but the issue is complicated by the fact that this is happening. I see trainers and fitness products that advocate intensity of form, and the problem at this point is the momentum these program have gained. It has influenced the media and the consumer, and now as professionals we have to figure out what to do with it. I am certainly not posting panel discussions on the easy questions… this is a professionals forum… I figure you have that stuff down.

For the sake of this discussion "High Intensity = High Force Production" - i.e. max strength training, Olympic lifts, and power training (speed). However, you may be onto something. Does the population at large simply want a high heart rate program? Can we make that happen with low intensity exercise?

July 28 at 1:30pm

Brent Brookbush Hey Jemimah Simms,

There is a reason why I make my living teaching live workshops… I agree with you 100%… But, we still need to improve access. How many people would I affect by live workshop alone? How many do I affect through facebook, youtube, twitter, linkedin, my website… etc… It's optimal (best quality for the medium), not perfection that I'm after…. same could be said about DVD's

July 28 at 1:32pm

Audra Jayne LaMontagne My solution doesn't help the masses but I see bad trainers as a great opportunity for me. :)

July 28 at 1:35pm

Jemimah Simms I'm giving you a hard time because I can. Not because I disrespect your opinion or what you do, far from it. I think in the fitness industry can be real quick to say: do so because I say so. Not that PT isn't the same way. I think the fitness industry has less to lose by giving poor advice and such.

July 28 at 1:40pm

Brent Brookbush I hope you don't mind my nit-picking a bit Audra Jayne LaMontagne, but the answer to that is a definitive "Maybe"… Unfortunately, bad training has lead to some pretty harsh stereotypes in personal training and has lost us of the trust of many healthcare professionals, and many who would otherwise be great candidates for personal training. When someone has a bad personal training experience they often disregard all personal trainers, not just the trainer that was responsible for the bad experience.

July 28 at 1:41pm

Jemimah Simms Personal trainers aid in healthcare, they aren't health care professionals. The same happens with any kind of practioner.

July 28 at 1:43pm

Brent Brookbush Hey Jemimah Simms,

I know why you are giving me a hard time… you, like myself, like to mix it up, and only do so out of love and respect :-)

I was only using myself as an example to try to reinforce the big picture. As professionals we have a responsibility to look beyond our immediate reach and consider our influence and the greater good…

July 28 at 1:44pm

Jennifer Allen Why not make a DVD with some access to a network of trainers that are qualified.

July 28 at 1:49pm

Jennifer Allen You can also Skype sessions and pay through pay pal

July 28 at 1:49pm

Brent Brookbush Nice Idea Jennifer Allen!!!

July 28 at 1:51pm

Jemimah Simms I know a few people who do that and who also text during sessions.

July 28 at 1:52pm

Audra Jayne LaMontagne Good point. But the only thing you can change is yourself. Just like nutritionists who have to fight stupid diet fads, we can only give advice to those who ask for it. So we cant combat insanity workouts and p90x with some sort of mass announcement that you'll screw up your body unless you call up mr. Obama. We just do our best to prove ourselves through ourselves and our clients. At least that's how I handle it. You have a little more of a following.

July 28 at 2:46pm via mobile

Jemimah Simms This is a little vulgar, but funny and dead on:http://gawker.com/online-courses/online-courses/5928989/the-problems-with-crossfit

The Problem(s) With Crossfit


First of all let me just say that Crossfit is great. It's great! Crossfit will g…See More

July 28 at 2:49pm

Brent Brookbush Hey Audra Jayne LaMontagne,

Right now you may not have the network of influence to make big change, and maybe I don't either, but you can definitely get there. It does take time. It is funny that you mention P90X, because recently "Beach Body" partnered with NASM (National Academy of Sports Medicine) to improve the quality of their product. I will be in Santa Monica next week teaching both the NASM CPT workshop and 2 days of public speaking (communication and education skills) to a group of P90X instructors. So it can happen… that is some big change… Beach Body distribution with NASM influencing their exercise selection and program design… imagine the number of lives we can improve… it's good stuff.

July 28 at 2:54pm

Rick Richey Jemimah Simms - I laughed out loud 2-3x while reading that article about CrossFit! Hysterical!

July 28 at 7:08pm

Yusuf Boyd Crossfit article is hilarious! Quality over quantity all day! I stop clients when form fails, but hey that's me….

July 28 at 7:54pm · Like · 4

Dave Maxwell Thanks for adding me in on this.You see this all the time in the gyms and on tv.For instance,you mentioned Crossfit,when I watch people doing the "Crossfit pullup" I get nervous.Its only a matter of time before they blow a disc out of their back.Or how about the bicep curl? Arching your back or pulling backwards as you are curling.If you cant isolate of stabilize your body during a bicep curl,lean up against a wall with your back flush.You want to feel a burn or lactic acid build up and a nice sweat? Go with high reps to failure.

July 28 at 9:00pm

Dave Bonk Personal trainers should never be allowed to use those tools.

July 29 at 5:37am

Sean Mullowney Put poor programming in and you get poor programming back. Having an aesthetically pleasing body that aches is like driving a nice sports car when the wheels rattle.

July 29 at 8:59am

danielbryanfitness I feel as if it has all gone way too far and people like us 'the saviors of health and fitness' have a long uphill battle if we are to tip the scale in our favor over these so called professionals and people who are endorsing fads and other crazy products that in the long run are only damaging our body. Brent it totally correct, we cannot reach a larger scale in just PT alone, PT is an awesome way to educate others in what is best for our human bodies and we can only hope that they tell 2 people…then they tell 2 people and they…(Wayne's world quote lol). However I believe its our duty to take the fight on a larger scale as were outnumbers greatly right now and people are the ones who will ultimately loose out. I'm based in the UK and I see it all the time, health clubs work harder to manipulate rather than inspire their prospects and members and give too many promises based on flawed assumptions. I have taken the measure of now doing regular workshops and seminars at my gym in which I work to help get our message across as well as looking to start a blog online. It begins small but the challenge is exciting. We need to be more overt with our knowledge, as we are oppressed by these so called celebrity workouts(major issue…WHERE ARE THEIR CERTS!!). Fad diets are everywhere, high intensity body destroying put me in a wheelchair before I'm 20 workouts (cough insanity). Exercise classes seem to breed terrible form as they favor intensity over form(les mills). Uneducated trainers (big problem) I feel we need to better educate the educators). I can elaborate a lot more on any of these points if needed as I have a fair amount of experiences with these issues now. Dan

August 02, 2013, 07:21:07 AM

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